Legislature(1999 - 2000)

05/15/1999 09:00 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
           HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                              
              May 15, 1999                                                                                                      
                 9:00 P.M.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE HFC 99 - 142, Side 1                                                                                                       
TAPE HFC 99 - 142, Side 2                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault called the House Finance Committee                                                                          
meeting to order at 9:00 p.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault   Representative Foster                                                                                     
Co-Chair Mulder    Representative Grussendorf                                                                                   
Representative Austerman   Representative Kohring                                                                               
Representative Bunde   Representative Moses                                                                                     
Representative J. Davies   Representative Williams                                                                              
Representative G. Davis                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gary Wilken; Senator Loren Leman; Bill Kozlowski;                                                                       
Elmer Lindstrom, Special Assistant, Department of Health and                                                                    
Social Services; Mike Pauley, Staff, Senator Leman; Jerry                                                                       
Luckhaupt, Legislative Legal Counsel, Legislative Affairs                                                                       
Agency; Gina MacDonald, Department of Health and Social                                                                         
Services; Lorna Rambert, Senator P. Kelly; Gina MacDonald,                                                                      
Department of Health and Social Services; Pat Clasby, Alaska                                                                    
State Hospital and Nursing Home Association;                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SCR 8 Creating the Long-Term Care Task Force of 1999.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SCR 8 was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do                                                                                  
pass" recommendation and with a published fiscal                                                                                
impact note by the Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                   
dated 4/21/99.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CS SSSB 94(FIN) am                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the medical use of marijuana;                                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HCS SSSB 94(FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee                                                                                  
with a "do pass" recommendation and with a                                                                                      
published fiscal impact note by the Department of                                                                               
Health and Social Services dated 5/4/99.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CSSB 97(FIN) am                                                                                                                 
"An Act relating to mental health services and                                                                                  
programs; relating to liability for payment for                                                                                 
mental health evaluation and treatment services;                                                                                
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CSSB 97(FIN) am was REPORTED out of Committee with                                                                              
a "do pass" recommendation and with a published                                                                                 
fiscal note by the Department of Health and Social                                                                              
Services dated4/21/99.                                                                                                          
CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 94(FIN) am                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
"An Act relating to the medical use of marijuana; and                                                                           
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MIKE PAULEY, STAFF, SENATOR LEMAN testified in support of SB
94 on behalf of the sponsor.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senate Bil1 94 proposes several amendments to the                                                                               
Medical Marijuana Act that took effect this year on                                                                             
March 4. The changes address some serious law                                                                                   
enforcement and public health concerns with this new                                                                            
statute, and also some practical concerns about how                                                                             
state agencies are going to implement what the voters                                                                           
have asked them to implement.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
In crafting this legislation, we have worked closely                                                                            
with the Department of Law, the Department of Public                                                                            
Safety, and the Department of Health and Social                                                                                 
Services. I am pleased to report that these three                                                                               
agencies are in support of the legislation before you.                                                                          
SB 94 is also supported by the Alaska State Advisory                                                                            
Board on Alcoholism & Drug Abuse, the Anchorage Police                                                                          
Department, and the Alaska Association of Chiefs of                                                                             
Police.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There are three major changes in the bill.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The first area is registration. The marijuana                                                                                   
initiative approved last fall by voters establishes a                                                                           
state registry of patients who are entitled to use                                                                              
marijuana for medicinal purposes. However, there is no                                                                          
requirement that a patient register - the initiative                                                                            
still provides legal protection for the use of medical                                                                          
marijuana even if the person is not registered with the                                                                         
state. This creates a problem for law enforcement.                                                                              
Because pharmacies are prohibited by federal law from                                                                           
dispensing marijuana, the drug must be obtained through                                                                         
other channels, and it all looks the same through the                                                                           
eyes of a police officer. To ensure that all patients                                                                           
who need marijuana are protected from needless arrest                                                                           
or unwarranted hassle, SB 94 requires patients and                                                                              
their caregivers to register, and to carry a registry                                                                           
ID card. We modeled this after our successful permit                                                                            
system for those who qualify to carry concealed                                                                                 
handguns. This system will help police distinguish                                                                              
between legitimate and illegitimate users of marijuana.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The second change deals with possession limits. The                                                                             
marijuana initiative established a presumptively legal                                                                          
possession limit of one ounce in usable form, and six                                                                           
plants. But the initiative also includes a paragraph                                                                            
that allows patients and their caregivers to possess an                                                                         
unlimited amount of marijuana, as long as it can be                                                                             
medically justified. The problem is, there is no                                                                                
definition of what is medically justified. The                                                                                  
Department of Law and the Department of Public Safety                                                                           
have urged the Legislature to remove; any ambiguity in                                                                          
this area and set the limit at the same amount                                                                                  
identified in the initiative, which is one ounce and                                                                            
six plants. SB 94 implements this change.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The third area concerns the role of the primary                                                                                 
caregivers for patients who are using medical                                                                                   
marijuana. SB 94 establishes some wise precautions to                                                                           
limit abuse. Each patient can have only one primary                                                                             
caregiver, and each primary caregiver can care for only                                                                         
one patient, with very limited exceptions. By creating                                                                          
a "one to one", relationship between the patient and                                                                            
caregiver, we will avoid scenarios such as what cropped                                                                         
up in California, where marijuana clubs sprouted up                                                                             
claiming to be the primary caregivers for 500 or 1000                                                                           
patients. SB 94 also states that no person who has                                                                              
committed a felony violation of drug laws can be a                                                                              
primary caregiver, and no person who is on probation or                                                                         
parole can be a primary caregiver.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Bunde observed that possession and use of                                                                            
marijuana is still against federal law. Mr. Pauley stated                                                                       
that there is nothing that the state can do to provide                                                                          
protection from federal prosecution. An United States Drug                                                                      
Enforcement Agency administrator stated in response to an                                                                       
inquiry by the Unites States Senate Judiciary Committee                                                                         
regarding initiatives legalizing marijuana passed in Arizona                                                                    
and California that:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
"The California and Arizona initiatives do nothing to                                                                           
change federal drug enforcement policy. The DEA will                                                                            
continue to target major drug traffickers, including                                                                            
major marijuana growers and distributors. We also can                                                                           
take both administrative and criminal actions against                                                                           
doctors who violate the terms of DEA drug registrations                                                                         
that authorizes them to prescribe controlled                                                                                    
substances. Doctors are registered with the DEA to                                                                              
prescribe only Schedule II-IV substances. Technically,                                                                          
those doctors who prescribe or recommend Schedule I                                                                             
substances are violating federal law. Then licenses of                                                                          
over 900 physicians have either been surrendered or                                                                             
revoked in the last two years for fraudulent                                                                                    
prescribing practices."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Bunde questioned if $5 thousand dollars in                                                                           
general fund program receipts is the charge for the                                                                             
identification card. Mr. Pauley explained that the fee would                                                                    
be $25 dollars. Vice-Chair Bunde suggested that the                                                                             
recipients should pay for the cost of the program.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies questioned if all 900 cases of                                                                         
fraudulent prescribing practices were related to marijuana.                                                                     
Mr. Pauley clarified that the figure includes all fraudulent                                                                    
prescription charges, not all were related to marijuana.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster asked how persons living in rural                                                                         
areas would register.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pauley explained that how a patient legally obtains the                                                                     
substance was not addressed in the initiative or the                                                                            
legislation. The patient would first need to obtain a                                                                           
doctor's recommendation that they have a debilitating                                                                           
medical condition that could be alleviated through the use                                                                      
of medical marijuana. The doctor's recommendation would go                                                                      
with an application to the Department of Health and Social                                                                      
Services. If the application is approved the patient would                                                                      
receive a card. The card would protect the patient from                                                                         
state prosecution. The legislation addresses the card on                                                                        
page 5, line 17.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault referred to page 5, line 24. He stated                                                                      
that "card" would be added as a technical correction.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question by Representative Grussendorf, Mr.                                                                    
Pauley explained that the medical patient or their primary                                                                      
care giver would be expected to grow their own marijuana.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Bunde observed that an illegal act must be                                                                           
committed before the legal use of marijuana occurs.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pauley noted that there have not been federal                                                                               
prosecutions of patients in the states that have passed                                                                         
medical marijuana initiatives.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Bunde expressed further concern that the fee was                                                                     
not sufficient to support the program.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ELMER LINDSTROM, SPECIAL ASSISTANT, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND                                                                    
SOCIAL SERVICES testified in support of SB 94. He explained                                                                     
that page 7; line 26 allows the department to adjust the                                                                        
fee. The Bureau of Vital Statistic will administer the                                                                          
program. The fee was based on comparisons to other services                                                                     
by the bureau.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault questioned if the language would allow                                                                      
the department to charge for other services. Mr. Pauley                                                                         
clarified that the legislation only refers to AS 17.37,                                                                         
relating to medical marijuana.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, LEGISLATIVE LEGAL COUNSEL, LEGISLATIVE                                                                         
AFFAIRS AGENCY observed that the department could                                                                               
theoretically extend the program to include other public                                                                        
health areas. The legislation allows a fee to be                                                                                
administered. The language was placed in statute by the                                                                         
initiative.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question by Representative Foster, Mr.                                                                         
Pauley noted that the initiative stated that individuals                                                                        
suffering from cancer, glaucoma, positive HIV, and AIDS                                                                         
would qualify for medical marijuana use. He added that the                                                                      
use of marijuana has been discredited by a recent Institute                                                                     
of Medicine Report of the Office of National Drug Control                                                                       
Policy. The Alaska State Board of Examiners and Optometry                                                                       
adopted a statement in December 1998 opposing the use of                                                                        
marijuana as a treatment for glaucoma on the grounds that it                                                                    
is not as effective as other treatment.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster noted that rural Alaskans might have                                                                      
difficulty with the quantity allowable under the                                                                                
legislation. Mr. Pauley pointed out that one-ounce lasting                                                                      
ten days is based on a very high rate scenario. He added                                                                        
that the terminally ill person would also be allowed 6                                                                          
plants. He did not imagine that terminally ill persons would                                                                    
be working in fish camps. Representative Foster questioned                                                                      
if marijuana could not be shipped by mail. Mr. Pauley did                                                                       
not think that it would be legal to ship marijuana.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault explained that the initiative is non-                                                                       
specific. Mr. Luckhaupt pointed out that possession of                                                                          
marijuana is still a crime under federal law. It cannot be                                                                      
transported. Co-Chair Therriault observed that the                                                                              
initiative could not affect federal law.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lindstrom noted that law enforcement agencies identified                                                                    
difficulties with the initiative. He observed that the                                                                          
intent is to meet the law enforcement concerns without                                                                          
interfering with the underlying patient doctor relationship                                                                     
or making the administration cumbersome.  The Administration                                                                    
supports the bill. He assured Representative Foster that the                                                                    
Administration is committed to making the program work in                                                                       
rural Alaska.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lindstrom discussed the fiscal note. He explained that                                                                      
the legislation changes the program from permissive                                                                             
registration to mandated registration. Registration would be                                                                    
run thorough the Bureau of Vital Statistics for a reasonable                                                                    
amount of money. The additional funds would allow the                                                                           
Department to provide law enforcement agencies with a                                                                           
nightly updated registration. There is a $25 dollar initial                                                                     
registration fee annual fee of $15 or $20 dollars.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault questioned if a full time position is                                                                       
needed to take care of 200 permits. Mr. Lindstrom stressed                                                                      
that it is a new program. Staff will have to verify                                                                             
registration information.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question by Representative Foster, Mr.                                                                         
Lindstrom stated that confidentiality laws would prohibit                                                                       
state employees from sharing the information with federal                                                                       
law enforcement agents. Mr. Pauley added that page 2, line                                                                      
25 addresses confidentiality. The information can only be                                                                       
shared with state or local law enforcement agencies in order                                                                    
to verify registration.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Luckhaupt noted that state statutes protect the                                                                             
caregiver. The state receives some immunity through the                                                                         
tenth amendment. He noted that the federal government                                                                           
started a federal marijuana program in the 1970's. He                                                                           
acknowledged that a state employee could be required to give                                                                    
up the information if subpoenaed by the federal government.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies pointed out that the legislation                                                                       
does not create a new program. It only modifies a program                                                                       
created by the initiative. Mr. Pauley responded that there                                                                      
is no money in the budget to implement any registration                                                                         
without the legislation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault MOVED to ADOPT  Amendment replace "and"                                                                     
with "card" on 1 page 5, line 24. There being NO OBJECTION,                                                                     
it was so ordered.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 2 (copy on                                                                    
file). Amendment 2 would change "one-year" to 16-month". Co-                                                                    
Chair Mulder OBJECTED for the purpose of discussion.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
(Tape Change, HFC 99 - 142, Side 2)                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, SPONSOR stated that he would not oppose                                                                    
the amendment in the spirit of compromise. He did not think                                                                     
that the 12-month requirement was unreasonable.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder WITHDREW his objection.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault clarified that the original request by                                                                      
the Department of Health and Social Services in the                                                                             
operating budget was higher.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman pointed out that it is still illegal to posses                                                                    
or use marijuana under federal law. Protection is only                                                                          
granted under the state law.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder ADOPT HCS CS SB 94 (FIN)                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HCS SSSB 94(FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do                                                                       
pass" recommendation and with a published fiscal impact note                                                                    
by the Department of Health and Social Services dated                                                                           
5/4/99.                                                                                                                         
SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 8                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Creating the Long-Term Care Task Force of 1999.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GARY WILKEN, SPONSOR observed that the legislation                                                                      
continues the effort of the Long-Term Care Task Force. He                                                                       
anticipated that there would only be a meeting or two of the                                                                    
Task Force. He did not think that the entire funding amount                                                                     
of $15.7 thousand dollars would be needed.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies spoke in support of the                                                                                
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Grussendorf MOVED to report SCR 8 out of                                                                         
Committee with the accompanying fiscal note. There being NO                                                                     
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SCR 8 was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do pass"                                                                            
recommendation and with a published fiscal impact note by                                                                       
the Legislative Affairs Agency dated 4/21/99.                                                                                   
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 97(FIN) am                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
"An Act relating to mental health services and                                                                                  
programs; relating to liability for payment for mental                                                                          
health evaluation and treatment services; and providing                                                                         
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
LORNA RAMBERT, SENATOR P. KELLY testified on behalf of the                                                                      
sponsor in support of SB 97. She read the sponsor statement:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DHSS reimburses private community hospitals (Designated                                                                         
Evaluation and Treatment Facilities) throughout Alaska                                                                          
to provide emergency mental health inpatient evaluation                                                                         
and treatment services. Hospitals provide these                                                                                 
services to individuals who are at risk of harming                                                                              
themselves or others. or who are so severely impaired                                                                           
by mental health symptoms that they are unable to care                                                                          
for themselves. Often these individuals are                                                                                     
experiencing severe psychiatric symptoms, such as                                                                               
depressive or psychotic symptoms, and need intensive                                                                            
inpatient mental health services.                                                                                               
Senate Bill 97 seeks to clarify the state's                                                                                     
responsibility for payment for services and the                                                                                 
responsibility of the state to determine the ability of                                                                         
patients to pay for those services. The proposed                                                                                
legislation clarifies client eligibility for these                                                                              
services. Additionally, it establishes                                                                                          
procedures for determining eligibility, processing                                                                              
applications, and paying claims. SB 97 creates an                                                                               
entitlement for eligible clients, thus allowing payment                                                                         
for serving those individuals whose mental illness                                                                              
increases their danger to themselves or others. The                                                                             
following are criteria for eligibility:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
* A patient is determined to be "suffering from a                                                                               
mental illness, and as a result is likely to cause                                                                              
serious harm to themselves or others, or is                                                                                     
gravely disabled." and;                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
* The patient's gross monthly household income falls                                                                            
below 185% of the federal poverty guideline.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SB 97 amends current statutes defining the state's                                                                              
responsibility for payment for inpatient psychiatric                                                                            
service for those patients needing intensive services.                                                                          
Historically the Department of Health and Social                                                                                
Services (DHSS) has reimbursed hospitals for only those                                                                         
patients who are committed by the courts for evaluation                                                                         
and treatment services. This legislation would require                                                                          
the department to reimburse hospitals for individuals                                                                           
who meet the commitment criteria, but who voluntarily                                                                           
admit themselves into the hospital. These individuals                                                                           
are therefore, not court ordered into care, but could                                                                           
be held under court order if they attempted to leave                                                                            
the hospital.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
GINA MACDONALD, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES                                                                        
offered to answer questions.  She noted that the Department                                                                     
does support the bill. She noted that the API 2000 project                                                                      
will reduce the number of beds at the Alaska Psychiatric                                                                        
Institute from 79 to 54. The legislation would provide a                                                                        
clear structure to direct how private hospitals would be                                                                        
paid to perform some emergency mental health functions.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question by Representative Austerman, Ms.                                                                      
MacDonald explained that federal funds would be used through                                                                    
FY 2001.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PAT CLASBY, ALASKA STATE HOSPITAL AND NURSING HOME                                                                              
ASSOCIATION stated that the Association supports the                                                                            
legislation.  Most hospitals in the state provide some type                                                                     
of emergency mental health evaluation services. Several                                                                         
hospitals also provide treatment services beyond 72 hours.                                                                      
The hospitals around the state have been working with the                                                                       
state as Alaska Psychiatric Institute is downsized. She                                                                         
emphasized that there needs to be a clear understand of when                                                                    
patients are the state's responsibility. Hospitals would be                                                                     
concerned if the services were developed and became an                                                                          
unfunded mandate.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kohring MOVED to report CSSB 97 FIN) am out                                                                      
of Committee with individual recommendations.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTIONS, it was so ordered.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CSSB 97(FIN) am was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do                                                                        
pass" recommendation and with a published fiscal note by the                                                                    
Department of Health and Social Services dated4/21/99.                                                                          
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The meeting adjourned at 10:05 p.m.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
House Finance Committee 7 5/15/99                                                                                               

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